Judith Collins managed to anger the Prime Minister by catching her out with sharp questioning using facts and actual documents. The Hansard shows just how slippery the Prime Minister is in not actually answering valid questions.
You just know how much pressure she is under when Grant Robertson, Nanaia Mahuta and Chris Hipkins all have to leap in to defend the ‘Princess’:
Hon Judith Collins: Why did the Department of Internal Affairs (DIA) present as a preferred option to 23 South Island mayors and iwi a document proposing co-ownership of South Island drinking water?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: They did not.
Hon Judith Collins: Is the Prime Minister now telling the House that this document here, that was presented to 23 mayors and iwi and says, “Owners are the Canterbury councils and Ngai Tahu, who are responsible for appointing representatives to the JGG.”—is that not what it says?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I’m happy to correct the member. I’m advised that that piece of work was commissioned by Ngai Tahu. It was prepared by PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC), and it is not something that Ngai Tahu or, of course, the Government, who did not commission it, have been pursuing.
Hon Judith Collins: So when the Prime Minister is now telling the House that this document is the fault of Ngai Tahu, is she now saying it was not presented by the Department of Internal Affairs at the hui that were being conducted by it?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I’m actually rejecting the content of the question. I’m advised that it was commissioned by Ngai Tahu. It’s not a question of blame.
Hon Judith Collins: Who presented the document to the 23 South Island mayors and iwi?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: It was prepared and commissioned by PwC. It has not been pursued, I’m advised, by either Ngai Tahu or, indeed, by the Government.
Hon Grant Robertson: Has she seen reports from Ngai Tahu to say that the Leader of the Opposition’s claims have been deceptive and wrong?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Yes, and I would really just encourage the member to engage directly with Ngai Tahu on this issue, because I understand they’ve had to correct some of the statements that have been made, more than once now. Or, simply, if the member chooses not to do that, feel free to engage directly with local government members, particularly in the South Island, who have been engaged in these conversations either directly with DIA or alongside Ngai Tahu. But again, I say to the member, if the member wishes to have a discussion over the fact that we have billions of dollars that need to be invested into our water infrastructure in the coming decades, and how we can best do that to protect the health and wellbeing of New Zealanders and ensure it remains in public ownership, which is a bottom line, I’m happy to have that debate. The member instead is choosing to turn this into a discussion it is not.
David Seymour: Will the Prime Minister rule out joint ownership of water infrastructure in the South Island between Ngai Tahu and councils, as suggested in this document?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Public ownership has always been a bottom line, so not only have we ruled that out; Ngai Tahu have ruled it out.
Hon Grant Robertson: Can the Prime Minister confirm reports that the chair of the Ngai Tahu freshwater group said, “The only person proposing a co-ownership model is Judith Collins.”?
SPEAKER: Order! That is not the Prime Minister’s responsibility.
Hon Judith Collins: Is the Prime Minister telling the House, as she just said before, that PwC commissioned this document; in which case, who paid for it?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: That is not what I said. [Interruption]
SPEAKER: Order! I think the member knows that there are—[Interruption] Order! I think the member knows there are ways of pursuing that. Probably the first is to listen to the tape.
David Seymour: Will the Prime Minister rule out co-governance of water infrastructure between Ngai Tahu and councils, as also suggested in this document, under her Government?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: We have been very clear on ownership structure. When it comes to the issue of governance of water services, the Government, local government—and, yes, alongside local government there has been good engagement with iwi, and local government themselves have been driving that, too. Those decisions are yet to be made, but we are very clear on ownership.
Hon Judith Collins: What does the Prime Minister believe is co-governance of drinking water in the South Island?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Ultimately, this has all been driven by the fact that in Havelock North we had people who got extraordinarily sick, and some who died, as a result of us not having consistent provision around either water regulation, making sure that regulations are upheld, or that our water infrastructure is sufficient. Currently, we have over the next 30 to 40 years $120 billion to $185 billion worth of investment required in infrastructure. What we are starting is a discussion with local government around how we deal with that significant infrastructure gap and investment when currently $1.5 billion, or $45 billion over the next 30 years, is how much local government is likely to invest. That is the problem we’re trying to address, and I would welcome the member’s engagement on that issue.
Hon Judith Collins: Is she concerned that the Government saying that Ngai Tahu needs to exercise rangatiratanga over drinking water could influence the present High Court case where Ngai Tahu is claiming full ownership of South Island fresh water?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: No.
Hon Nanaia Mahuta: Will it surprise the Prime Minister that Ngai Tahu has consistently advocated for clean, safe, reliable drinking water, as well as improved freshwater outcomes, for all New Zealanders in the South Island?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: That is exactly what they’ve been advocating for, and not just around drinking water. Of course, they’ve been engaging on the freshwater reforms, as well. That is something that surely we all can agree on and all have an interest in.
Hon Chris Hipkins: Does the current Government continue to honour the co-governance arrangements signed up to by the previous Government for natural resources, including, for example, parks?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Yes, and it’s actually been in this House that we’ve discussed at some length the fact that it was the last Government that engaged in, particularly, Te Urewera Act of 2014; the Waikato River Authority of 2010, which is an independent statutory body under the Waikato-Tainui Raupatu Claims (Waikato River) Settlement Act, something I thought that previous Government was proud of; and, of course, governance around Little Barrier Island and Tupuna Maunga o Tamaki Makaurau Authority, 2014. My point here is that in Government these were areas in which members not only actively engaged; they encouraged and changed the law around. Now that they’re in Opposition, they appear to be taking their party backwards by decades. I wonder whether every member of that party is entirely comfortable with this significant repositioning.
Rawiri Waititi: Has the Prime Minister seen any reports on a water authority for the South Island that gives Ngai Tahu iwi co-ownership of water, as alleged by the Leader of the Opposition?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: No, because ultimately neither Ngai Tahu—and they have been very clear on this—are pursuing that, and, of course, we’ve ruled it out as a bottom line. So they are attributing a position to Ngai Tahu that they do not hold.
Hon Judith Collins: Then why are they suing in the court to own all the fresh water in the South Island?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Ngai Tahu are rightly raising issues around fresh water, and it is up to them—[Interruption]—around freshwater quality—and they have every right to access the court, as does any other iwi.
Hansard
So Jacinda Ardern began with a lie, that the Department of Internal Affairs did not present the information that Judith Collins has.
Then she blamed Ngai Tahu and said they commissioned the PriveWaterhouseCoopers report that she said wasn’t presented to local authorities by the Department of Internal Affairs, when it was in fact presented.
Followed by a claim that Ngai Tahu doesn’t really want to own all the water in the South Island, when they are currently before the courts claiming precisely that.
No wonder the ‘Princess’ needed protection…she’s clearly rattled that her grand scheme to up-end the constitutional norms of this country have been well and truly rumbled.
The question also should be why will Ngai Tahu, as only around 2.5% of the population of the South Island, get co-governance (a done deal) of all fresh water in the South island?
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