Mike:
We begin as we always do these days with the Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern who is with us. A very good morning to you.
Jacinda:
Good morning Mike.
Mike:
So, how many people left hotels without testing?
Jacinda:
(Sucks in breath) Well, from the 9th of June of course remember and in fact for all of them do remember the most important thing is the 14 days, so I just want to highlight that again.
The 14 days is actually the most cautious approach. Belt and braces are testing the 14 days is what matters and the reason for that is because of the high rate of false negatives and because 14 days is how you can be assured that if you are symptom free that you are… that you are safe. So that’s the first think I want to say.
The second thing is that the Ministry of Health are working through all of those cases, keep in mind we’ve had aah over the course of the period we’ve had quarantine aah over 20,000 people who’ve been through facilities. So, they are working through some of that detail to be give you specific numbers, but again – everyone other than those on compassionate leave were in for 14 days and that is the most important thing.
Mike:
So, the answer is still “we don’t know”?
Jacinda:
No, the answer is that the Ministry of Health are working through that and I will leave that to them to provide all the information. But…
Mike:
When… when?
Jacinda:
It will be… aah look I imagine it will be in the… in the next day or two Mike. But, keeping in mind they will be going through with… and checking people who have bin out after 14 days.
Mike:
Right.
Jacinda:
That is the most important thing.
Mike:
What if we have a large number of people who left who weren’t tested and when they are tested. they are positive?
Jacinda:
Oh, look I wouldn’t have that expectation…
Mike:
Why not?
Jacinda:
…and I doubt the Ministry of Health would as well.
Mike:
Why?
Jacinda:
Because… because of course Mike if you are not symptomatic and you’ve not been in a quarantine facility for 14 days that is the most important thing.
Mike:
So…
Jacinda:
That is the most cautious approach you could take. Aah… and that is the reason you see the world over… that… that’s the basis on which most people are using quarantine.
Mike:
Is the simple truth not that up until now, and up until this whole programme was busted open last week, there wasn’t enough testing going on and that’s why all of a sudden, we’ve got seven, possibly eight cases in quarantine?
Jacinda:
No. No. No, I wouldn’t say that. A couple of things actually that umm help with context. So, a month ago we had half the number of people coming in that we do now.
So, now we’ve got roughly four thousand two hundred people who are in facilities and part of that will be that aah some countries are opening up even though cases are actually worldwide are increasing. So, we have eight million cases now worldwide, over a hundred thousand a day umm being tested positive worldwide.
So, the pandemic is growing but actually some of the flights are starting to increase and the movement is starting to increase so we have more New Zealanders coming home so we do just simply have more people in facilities.
Mike:
So, just in the last week, out of nowhere because – and I accept your argument because it is true – aah but just out of the last week from nowhere seven cases possibly eight.
Jacinda:
Well…
Mike:
When there has been, up until this point, none.
Jacinda:
Well, no. Putting aside the fact that umm aah… we’ve got two from the UK and a number that are coming in from countr… from India via flights that weren’t available before, so there is some rationale to why we are seeing, and of course we’ve got a… a significant number of cases coming out of that umm that country right now. They are what we would consider a high-risk country.
Now, Kiwis are going to continue to come home and we have an obligation to allow them to come home. We can’t shut our borders from New Zealanders being able to return but we are seeing an increasing number coming home and from high-risk countries where the pandemic is surging. So, that’s why we’ve always had our checks and balances at the border, that’s why we’ve always had quarantine, and it’s proving as important now as it’s ever been.
Mike:
Is the hotel at the airport locked down because of a case late last night?
Jacinda:
Aah! So, umm look, we do have protocols in place that mean a normal practice is that when we have a case in umm aah a motel… a hotel, sorry aah the person in question is relocated. It… just though, Mike, to be fair it’s not always just if someone’s tested positive, it’s also if someone is symptomatic, they will be relocated.
So, like… what we have heard reported last night is our general protocol but it has been enhanced (sucks in breath) and obviously information is being shared with those who are in the facilities. So, it’s nothing to be alarmed about, that’s just what happens when we have (indistinct)…
Mike:
So, there is an additional case, in other words we now have eight cases?
Jacinda:
I am always going to leave Health to do the reporting on cases but, I will just provide that context, that when someone is moved umm then there’s a protocol in place that means everyone stays exactly where they are when they are either tested positive or they are symptomatic.
Mike:
Why are we still hearing cases… and this… this has umm shadows of the PPE all over again, why are we still hearing cases of people being in quarantine and not being tested when they said they were going to be?
Jacinda:
Aah… and I think I probably would have… you know, answered at least some of the context in that first part of our interview Mike, that again, the most important part is the 14 days. Second umm of course we had a protocol in place particularly aah…aah formally from aah that first week of June that two tests should be happening in quarantine…
Mike:
And they weren’t.
Jacinda:
…now. And that is what is underway so…
Mike:
And that’s what I’m asking. There was a bloke on the news last night, a bloke called Todd (Indistinct) he hasn’t been tested yet, at all.
Jacinda:
And nor has be been released and as I understand umm…
Mike:
But he’s gone past day three. And you test on day three and twelve, and he hasn’t been.
Jacinda:
…(Indistinct) day twelve and his case as I understand it is quite particular so… look I’m not going to argue that what’s happened in his particular case amongst the 4,272 we happen to have in quarantine right now has been perfect, but the protocol is yes, day three and day twelve…
Mike:
So, are we going to hear this week large numbers of people in quarantine who are saying they’re not being tested on day three and day twelve?
Jacinda:
Aah… no, no we shouldn’t be. Umm, it might be that you have the odd case that’s day four and day thirteen umm but the important point is that no one is being released without a test. People are required to be negative before they are released, and they are doing 14 days.
Yesterday we had 5,950 tests Mike, so rigorous testing is umm aah is going on across the country.
Mike:
What about the woman who was moved on Friday having been in isolation for three days, flown to Christchurch alongside 150 other people in different stages of isolation from a number of different hotels?
Jacinda:
Again, critical thing here that links to a question you’ve asked about a gentleman who wasn’t moved because he wasn’t tested. So, people being put into other facilities umm are required to be tested first before they are relocated.
So, again Mike, 4,272 people in quarantine. So, a large number, double what we’ve had aah since last month. We are using facilities umm in different parts of the country, very tight protocols around moving people, they cannot be on flights with anyone outside umm isolation and quarantine, they are being required to be tested, it is all very rigorous umm individuals will be moved…
Mike:
(Sighs loudly)
Jacinda:
…aah we have to be very strict about that…
Mike:
When you say it’s all very rigorous – it hasn’t been rigorous and we now know it’s not been rigorous and the same way that the PPE was on a normal footing and there was plenty of it and it was being distributed we now know wasn’t the case.
You’ve got a major credibility issue around what you say and what actually happens.
Jacinda:
Well… aah again I’m going to dispute that Mike aah and again also what I would umm aah point out is that we are not the only country who are putting in place protocols like this. Many other countries however just allow people to self-isolate at home…
Mike:
This has got nothing to do with anything. We’ve got our own programme to run. What you are telling us happens – doesn’t happen. We found that out last week.
Jacinda:
Ohh… look and… Mike I am, of course, accepting that what happened aah… last week was not, was not in accordance with the very strict protocol that we’ve put in place. It was not helpful not argue that, I will not argue that… it is why aah… we have put in place someone completely new to oversee testing the entire process and exit criteria, aah and that is Air Commodore Webb from the Defence Forces, why we have doubled staff at all of our facilities…
Mike:
But that seems to be the way your government runs, though doesn’t it? It seems to be the way your government runs – you tell us something is happening until it is proven it’s not happening then you appoint somebody else to fix what wasn’t happening in the first place.
Jacinda:
Mike! Mike!
Mike:
Happened with the PPE, happened with the testing and quarantine.
Jacinda:
I do not accept that and…
Mike:
Well, you can’t not accept it. It’s true. It’s a fact!
Jacinda:
Mike, we have had over 20,000 people go through quarantine. We have not one case of an individual from quarantine who has passed on Covid to anyone else outside…
Mike:
But you don’t know that. You don’t know that because they left the hotels untested.
Jacinda:
Mike, yes, we do.
Mike:
You don’t.
Jacinda:
Yes, we do.
Mike:
You don’t.
Jacinda:
Yes, we do.
Mike:
You do not! They left the hotels untested.
Jacinda:
Mike, 20,000 people have come through. We’ve continued to have rigorous testing across…
Mike:
Tell me how many people left the hotel untested? You can’t. You’ve already said you can’t, therefore you can’t tell me that they haven’t left the hotel untested therefore you don’t know.
Jacinda:
Yes, we can know because…
Mike:
No, you don’t know.
Jacinda:
…because we’ve had community testing all the way through this as well Mike.
Mike:
(Exasperated voice) It doesn’t mean anything!If you only test… a community test only tests the people you test, it doesn’t test the people you don’t test.
Jacinda:
Clearly if I can’t make a statement about what’s happened with 20,000 people in the wider community testing alongside that – and you are not going to accept it – that is for you Mike. But the point I make is that all the way through this, for the last what… since March, we have had a quarantine process that has put 20,000 people through…
Mike:
It doesn’t matter how many people have gone through. The question is how many people have left untested. You don’t know the answer to that. Because you don’t know the answer to that, you don’t know how many people are out in the community.
Jacinda:
I’ve made my point. You continue to make yours.
Mike:
The Ministry of Health had no idea how much personal protective equipment it had, how much it needed, what had expired, how it should be distributed. That’s the Auditor-General. You say what?
Jacinda:
Look, I… I’ve seen the Auditor-General’s recommendations as well and that wasn’t my interpretation of what he said…
Mike:
Well, no… that’s a quote from his report. That’s what he said.
Jacinda:
That is, they have made ten recommendations all of which have now bin followed up aah… what… one of the issues I think we should aah we should absolutely accept Mike is the distribution across DHBs was not what it needed to be…
Mike:
But you said…
Jacinda:
Here we had national…
Mike:
You said we were on a war footing and it was all fine.
Jacinda:
No, no, no. I don’t think it was… obviously it was suggested… Mike you didn’t tune in to my one o’clock presses, no there was absolute acceptance that there were issues with distribution and that’s why we centralised it so no, no one made that argument at all.
Mike:
So, if I could find a piece of recording that has you saying there is no distribution problem and that you’ve got plenty of PPE and we are on a war footing and there’s no need to complain, then you will admit…
Jacinda:
You will absolutely find me conceding the point that we had issues with the distribution. Absolutely. That was quite clear aah what we were arguing of course, all the way through, was that we had national stores but then getting that out through the DHBs and into the community services who need them was not what it needed to be and yes, absolutely we acknowledged that.
Mike:
Just quickly, is it acceptable to spend in excess of half a million dollars on a slide and some wood in the parliament grounds?
Jacinda:
(Sucks in breath) Ooh you are talking about the (indistinct) Mike I am happy to answer questions on everything and anything but I am going to be really clear on that one, the speaker is in charge of decisions made around the building at parliament I won’t comment on that. One of the things I happily do not… one of the things I happily do not have a role in responsibility over is in parliament’s facilities. That is a neutral person and the speaker that takes care of that.
Mike:
Appreciate your time. Jacinda Ardern the prime minister.
If you enjoyed this BFD post please consider sharing it with your friends.