Mike:
So it turns out Michael Woodhouse had it right, the women whose trip to Wellington has seen the government’s entire quarantine strategy fall to pieces in front of our eyes did stop, and they did meet people, and on the back of those revelations the flood is now on that those in quarantine not tested, not isolated, let out with no testing at all. Director General of Health Ashley Bloomfield is back with us. Good morning.
Ashley:
Good morning Mike.
Mike:
Have you quit yet?
Ashley:
No, I haven’t quit, aah I just want to say aah I don’t…I’m not planning to quit. I’ve aah worked very hard at the Ministry, as people know, over the last few months to keep New Zealanders safe. I’m proud of what New Zealanders have achieved, we’ve had high expectations of ourselves umm to… to achieve what we have and you know, it’s clear umm with the slip up at the Auckland quarantine that we didn’t meet those expectations.
I am sorry about that. That was said yesterday. I’ve owned that, I’ve umm taken responsibility and in particular I’ve taken responsibility for making sure it’s safe, so we’re focused on that.
Mike:
Why does no one in this government ever get held to account for anything?
Ashley:
Well I’m not part of the government but I’m certainly putting my hand up aah as being responsible for making sure the system works. There was clearly a… a gap in the implementation of the testing in Auckland aah… I wasn’t aware of that. As soon as I became aware, we’ve made sure no one leaves aah… managed isolation or quarantine for any reason unless they’ve had a test and as soon as I found out about that I made sure that was the rule and that’s been applied.
Mike:
Why weren’t you making sure it was the rule from day one? It’s so simple. It’s so simple.
Ashley:
Yes… well… aah… we… we had processes in place. The… remembering we moved to alert level one very quickly, clearly there was a gap in the implementation and, as I say, made… made sure that that gap is now closed and it’s really clear what….
Mike:
You make it sound like it’s some sort of military operation. No one leaves the building unless they test negative. Beginning, middle and end.
Ashley:
Aah… well… I’m not a military person but aah… that’s what we… we’re doing now and umm… that’s aah the expectation that’s been really clear. So, I can provide that assurance and I’m also… (indistinct) go back and review and look and…
Mike:
Well what… but actually, it’s too late.
Ashley:
…and see what happened in this case.
Mike:
Well what happened? They didn’t get tested. We all know what happened.
Ashley:
They didn’t get tested before they left and what we are focused on now is making sure (a) everyone does get tested and (b) if there was any risk that the two women may have presented, that that is being managed and we are very focused on that.
Mike:
Just quickly on the women themselves, did they lie to you, or did you not ask enough questions?
Ashley:
Look, they didn’t lie. It’s very common in these situations, remembering they had just lost a parent, they were um… distraught, they were on their way down to Wellington aah and that’s why our a… a… to be with the remaining parent, that is why our public health do do follow up interviews. It’s not uncommon for them to elicit other information.
Mike:
So, you’re telling me a person who’s got one job during the day to go from point A to point B, when you say did you meet anybody along the way, given that’s all they did that day, they can’t remember whether they met anybody that day? And you trust them to say… that that was the truth as opposed to a lie?
Ashley:
Well, look the… the information was elicited at a subsequent interview. It was while they were trying to get out of Auckland, they got lost – went the wrong way and went North instead of South. They asked for assistance from their friends. There was a very short interaction to make sure they got pointed in the right direction.
And actually, the public health unit found this out on Tuesday night, didn’t tell us until yesterday afternoon after I enquired, and the reason is, they did not think that the interaction was material.
Mike:
What!
Ashley:
I said anything is material and let’s act decisively.
Mike:
Are they thick? Is that the problem, are you dealing with thick people? They didn’t let you know; they didn’t think it was important. I mean, what… what sort of brain power is going into that?
Ashley:
Because they were judging that on… based on… these are very experienced people… based on the nature of the interaction that it did not present any risk. I said “belt and braces” we will put these people in self-isolation and they had already been tested, we are expecting the test results today as well.
Mike:
On June 9 you said that people would be tested for Covid on their third and twelfth day in isolation whether they were symptomatic or not, that’s not happening. Not only isn’t that happening, it’s voluntary.
Ashley:
It is happening now. And I’ve made it clear there was some question about whether they could be compelled to, under the existing order, while I’ve made it really clear that I will not deem anyone as low risk before they leave unless they have returned a negative test.
Mike:
So, it becomes mandatory now?
Ashley:
Absolutely. It has ever since, as I said Tuesday when I found out about this and gave that instruction out to all managed isolation facilities.
Mike:
What about all the endless stories we are hearing in the last 24 hours at the Grand Mercure and other hotels where people are having parties, candles are getting blown out, groups are getting mixed, no one’s getting tested, everyone’s leaving with no testing?
Ashley:
Well, as I say, since Tuesday everyone is tested before they go, the operation of the umm of the hotels is aah… is aah is done by aah Commodore Digby as was announced yesterday… Commodore Digby as announced by the prime minister and Mike Bush and I know their team. They are looking into any… any complaints or any issues that arise and look, I’ve also heard reports of very strict umm aah enforcement of the… of the mixing in… no mixing and mingling, so any reports like that we will absolutely follow up. I will hand those over to Mike Bush to make…
Mike:
Given the stories we’ve heard of the birthday parties and the candles being blown out without people getting tested and people leaving, do you have any idea of how many people have been in quarantine, and have left with no tests?
Ashley:
(Sucks in breath) Aah what we are doing of course in the case of aah umm the two women here, which are the first two positive cases we’ve had for some time – remember we’ve had over 19,000…
Mike:
Ashley… Ashley you only have positive cases if you test. How many people have left hotels, do you know, with no test?
Ashley:
I don’t know. But I can find…
Mike:
You don’t know!
Ashley:
We re implementing a… a… as I said, everybody aah in the hotel does not leave aah for any reason…
Mike:
As of now, that’s as of now? Up until yesterday’s calamity, how many people left hotels without being tested?
Ashley:
Look Mike, it’s not a calamity. There just (indistinct)…
Mike:
Oh, come on!
Ashley:
(Indistinct)
Mike:
Come on! Can you tell me how many people left hotels with no test?
Ashley:
Everybody completes their 14 days isolation, that is the mainstay of protecting our border…
Mike:
And do they get tested?
Ashley:
From the 9th of June we have… have been adding in testing at day three and day twelve as a “belt and braces…”
Mike:
No, you haven’t!
Ashley:
(Indistinct)
Mike:
No, you haven’t – you’ve said you have…
Ashley:
Let me finish Mike. Right at the start, as I said, the implementation of that there was some gaps. I’ve said I… I will make sure that the system is in place that that doesn’t… that no one does leave and if they have been tested…
Mike:
But it hasn’t been in place, that’s the point. So, the question is simple: how many people have left the hotel without being tested?
Ashley:
I do not know that number but…
Mike:
How on earth can you not know that number?
Ashley:
That was the second of aah… since two days ago unless they’ve been tested, Mike. And that’s what I’m taking responsibility for.
Mike:
So, there’s potentially, what – half a dozen, a dozen, 20, 30, 50, 100 or we literally don’t know?
Ashley:
Let me go back. We have had managed isolation in place for several months with people going in and… and… aah and undertaking 14 days of that isolation without any testing. We added the testing in once we moved to alert level one, we moved rapidly, that didn’t get implemented as well as it could have…
Mike:
Ashley you didn’t… you didn’t implement the testing because we got numerous stories of people not being tested.
Ashley:
Look, aah Mike, just to reiterate, it is now being fully implemented and I’m providing that assurance and my team and I are very focused on making sure that happens.
Mike:
Let me come to the Auditor-General, why was PPE… basically, you lied to the country. You said there was plenty of PPE and you were on a war footing and there was no problem getting it and there was no problem with distribution – the Auditor-General says that’s not true.
Ashley:
I don’t think that’s quite what he does say Mike, what he says was that…
Mike:
Can I quote you then? You had no idea how much personal protective equipment you had, how much was needed, what was expired, how it should be distributed. His words, not mine.
Ashley:
So, our PPE was held in both national stock and out in DHBs. As soon as aah… Covid-19 came along we started to look at exactly what we did have and made sure that we had enough PPE for the whole health system. We did not run out of PPE – let me be clear – we had good supplies of PPE, we had enough onshore and we got more in, secondly, what he does say in the report is when it became apparent that the distributed way of getting this out to people was not working the Ministry gripped it up and has sorted it out nationally. And I’m proud of what we did there. We actually sorted this out and we now have a national distribution system (indistinct)…
Mike:
No national stocktake since 2016? Is that true?
Ashley:
That hadn’t been… that’s right, that hadn’t happened…
Mike:
No central (indistinct) at all?
Ashley:
This is a devolved health system, as soon as we realised there was an issue umm aah you know we… this is one of the things we worked very hard on, was getting that centralised and making sure that we could distribute it effectively from the centre. And we did not run out, and we’ve got very good stocks and supply.
Mike:
And given all that we’ve just heard you still don’t feel you should quit?
Ashley:
Oh, look Mike, just to reiterate, you know this has been a global pandemic, it continues, we’ve been deeply committed to keeping New Zealanders safe. I’m proud of what we’ve achieved now and that commitment remains stronger than ever and we’re doubling down our efforts to keep New Zealand safe.
Mike:
All right, appreciate your time, Ashley Bloomfield.
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