Mike:
David Clark ah couldn’t tell me before how many test kits are in this country, can you?
Jacinda:
We have 30,000 swabs as part of our testing ah… capacity… for up to 1,500 a day and of course as you can imagine the whole world, Mike, is relying on the kit needed to undertake testing so it’s not the capacity issue, we have as much capacity as some of the countries who are testing as many people in the world as anywhere else, it’s just making sure that everyone has the supply and every one is in demand ah… at the moment.
Mike:
So, how many kits have we got?
Jacinda:
As I said we’ve got 30,000 for purposes of swabbing…
Mike:
That’s the swabs, but the kits themselves?
Jacinda:
Ah, so that is obviously an important part of that. If you are talking about the machines, I understand capacity is not the problem. Capacity is not the problem. The different elements of the testing are the things that everyone is seeking. So, we have the ability to continue to keep testing 1,500 a day um… ah… which is significant for our proportion of our population ah… that needs to be tested, of course it’s about equivalent to what Korea is doing. Relative to population it is just making sure everyone has got the ah… the different parts required.
Mike:
So, I take it the Ministry don’t know, he doesn’t know and you don’t know.
Jacinda:
No, that is not true, Mike.
Mike:
Well, he’s already told us he doesn’t know and the ministry doesn’t know so…
Jacinda:
No, no… that… I absolutely dispute that. To imply that we are not in a situation of understanding inventory at a granular level for our testing is unfair statement to make. We have a group of tireless professionals making sure that NZ is doing everything it can to slow down the transmission of COVID-19, we’ve been very successful to date ah… but the preparation has been intense. So, I don’t think that is a fair assumption. Our capacity for testing is significant, we are in the same position as everyone else in the world – high demand for elements for testing – and we continue to do everything we can to make sure we have all we need.
Mike:
How close to closing schools are we?
Jacinda:
So, that’s a… that’s a question of where we are in [the] transmission cycle. So, if we have a case that’s at a school you will see, as we did in Logan Park, the school shuts down. We shut it down for 72 hours.
Two reasons for that: it gives us the change to contact… trace kids who might have been in contact with that case. So, for Logan Park, for instance, we have 150 contacts there – in that case we actually tested all of them. That was an extra chance for us to check we had community transmission – we did not – they all came back negative.
Ah… then after 72 hours we reopen the school. The other reason for that 72 hours research is telling us after that amount of time COVID isn’t on surfaces anymore. So, even if you haven’t done a good thorough clean, which we are as well, ah… that’s… that’s a good time to leave…
Mike:
Back to schools generally, how close to closing all of them are we?
Jacinda:
Well, then you are looking more if you have community transmission that’s when you think about that tool of closing schools. We don’t have that. The areas… the countries we want to replicate are the likes of Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan. They’re tended to… as in Singapore, do what we are doing – close schools if you have a case. Deal with that then reopen them.
Ah, if you close all your schools without some ah… rationale for that, then you have kids going off to grandparents, kids who are spending time with one another ah… and so that causes other problems.
Mike:
There are meetings today between a number of principals and the unions and the threat is they’re going to pull the pin today for closure on Monday – what are you going to do about that?
Jacinda:
Ah… make sure that they understand of course that we are basing every decision on scientific evidence. And so, um… children and young people we know are less affected by COVID-19. Um… but that doesn’t mean of course that we don’t have to think about their ability to transmit to others and so if schools shut down prematurely then you might have um…people… children going to grandparents who are more susceptible, you take out workforce to have to look after them and that includes our health work force – there are wider ramifications. So, the assurance I wish to give is that we are being precautionary and evidence based in everything and so…
Mike:
Has the Ministry threatened schools with funding cuts if they close?
Jacinda:
Oh. look… I haven’t… I haven’t heard of any threats if people…
Mike:
If I had, would that surprise you?
Jacinda:
And… and… well look I know there is anxiety Mike, and I know that people will be looking overseas at countries that are closing schools but they are in the middle of outbreaks that are… that are uncontrolled – where they can’t trace anymore – we still can.
We will take precautionary measures when we abs… when we are at a point where decisions need to be made.
We, for instance, put in border controls um… you know… 15 days after our first case. We will move quickly I need people to work with us as we do that.
Mike:
How close are we to closing pubs, restaurants and basically locking the place down?
Jacinda:
Ah… two things on that. Yesterday we put out guidance on mass gatherings. So, we said, look – over 100 umm… ah…
Mike:
But that’s what I’m asking. This is a pattern. It’s 100, it’s 50 it’s 10, it’s closed so how quickly is that going to happen?
Jacinda:
This is where I think actually it is really good to just go back to the basic principles because then actually you can just… you don’t have to have these iterative decisions.
If you can’t stay two metres apart don’t get together um… because that is… that is the guidance for close contact now. If you’re within spitting distance of people that’s when someone gets COVID we’ll be calling you and telling you to self-isolate. And so, it really… um is good practice to keep that distance. Ah. because then we don’t end up either picking it up or inconveniencing you if you have to go into self-isolation.
Mike:
But… but in answer to the question, you seemed to indicate that for schools if you got community spread that you’d look to trigger it, potentially, what’s the trigger to go from 100 to 50 to 10 to 0, in other words…
Jacinda:
So, the second point I’ve already been making, Mike, is actually if you want to get ahead of outbreak, so we want to be the country that has smaller waves ah… then everyone needs to be prepared – be prepared to work from home – and that’s the message I’m sending. Be prepared for that. Be prepared to cancel non-essential trips. Um… be prepared to, you know, reduce down that social contact and in fact do that now. So, we are telling people now.
Mike:
I get all of this. What I’m trying to work out is what’s your thinking in heading toward locking the whole place down. What do we need to be seeing?
Jacinda:
Yeah, and that’s… well we could… if we see that we’re starting to see spikes then we will take precautionary measures. We will then say, you know, that’s when we need to be working from home and so on.
So, what… what we are working to is making sure that people have a really clear idea of the kinds of measures we will be asking for at different points of transmission.
Mike:
Okay. Listen to what Rob Fyfe said on the programme yesterday – listen to this:
“I’m amazed ah… that we actually think it’s right to still have people coming to NZ for a holiday, for God’s sake. I mean it’s nuts, right?”
Mike:
So, you closed the border yesterday, why didn’t you do it at least a week ago?
Jacinda:
(Sucks in breath) So, we did it… we closed… ah… we required everyone to self-isolate ah… 15 days after the first case.
Mike:
I know, I know all that. Why didn’t we close the border earlier?
Jacinda:
Mike let me finish here. This is really important to me. Let me just finish. No one in the world had done that.
Mike:
So what?
Jacinda:
We have now closed our borders within 20… with only 28 cases. No one in the world has done that. We have had border measures in for a month, every time we have done that people have got the message and stopped coming. When I saw that people hadn’t stopped coming, we closed it.
Transcript starts at 7:10