Ryan Bridge spoke with the Chinese ambassador, Wu Xi, on the AM show on Thursday morning 31 October. Part 2 follows with a discussion on Anne-Marie Brady and Huawei.
Ryan:
China’s embassy this week reached out to the AM show and offered a rare interview with China’s ambassador to NZ to discuss the relationship between the two countries and defend claims that it’s been shutting down free speech. In a television exclusive Wu Xi joins me now from Wellington. Madam ambassador, good morning and welcome to the programme. Ni hao.
Wu:
Ni hao Ryan, good morning. Thank you for inviting me. It’s great to talk to you in Wellington. It’s a beautiful day here.
Ryan:
It’s fantastic! Always a beautiful day in Wellington. Can I start with why you have reached out to the programme, why is it that you want to come on and talk to me this morning?
Wu:
Well I… I think it’s great to talk to you people on air because the relationship is now in good shape and I want to share my views with the NZ audience from my perspective of the bilateral relations.
Ryan:
You say that’s it’s now in good shape, does that mean that it hasn’t been of late?
Wu:
Well, ah… the relationship has been very good ah… since the establishment of our diplomatic relations and now at last, just last year, our bilateral trade volume reached NZ$30billion. That puts China as the first and the largest trading partner of NZ. We are very proud of that and now we are negotiating an upgrade of [the] FTA. Our leaders are very much committed to deepening comprehensive strategic partnership between our two countries. They reached a consensus during Prime Minister Ardern’s visit to China last April and ah… ah… people to people exchanges are dynamic with the year of tourism this year.
Despite our differences we have ah… our common interests outweigh our differences, and what is important is our two countries respecting each other, ah… have frequent exchanges while dealing with those differences. And to China territorial integrity and sovereignty is always the most important issue.
We… we oppose any other country to interfere in China’s internal affairs and most recently we have seen a lot of US interference in China’s internal affairs with regard to Hong Kong shin jing(?), which we are strongly opposed to and we would urge the United States to stop interfering in China’s internal affairs and stop supporting violence and riots in Hong Kong and to stop undermining China’s efforts in counter-terrorism.
Ryan:
That’s something that the Chinese government has said before. Are you concerned about NZ’s role in trying to influence events in Hong Kong, or what NZ’s support for America in trying to influence events in Hong Kong?
Wu:
NZ has a close relationship in terms of economy and the people… two people exchanges in Hong Kong, continued prosperity and the development in Hong Kong serves the interests of NZ so I… I would suppose NZ would like to see the continued prosperity of Hong Kong because that serve[s] the interests, not only China, but also NZ.
Ryan:
They would also like to see, and this is something that our foreign minister has made clear, the ah… special conditions under which Hong Kong operates maintained, and they were taken away, or attempted to be taken away, when it comes to extradition for judicial purposes. Ah… a lot of people have concerns about the judicial system in China that has been, by international observers, said to be corrupt and also said to be not impartial from the Communist Party of China. These are valid concerns, are they not?
Wu:
Since the return of sovereignty of Hong Kong to China, policies of one country-two systems has been successfully implemented and the people in Hong Kong has (sic) enjoyed a more unprecedented freedom and democracy than any other period under the British rule. So, at the moment there are violent protestors… protesting Hong Kong and this has crossed the line of rule of law, challenged the bottom line of one country-two systems and disrupted the normal order in Hong Kong. So, we support, the central government strongly support[s] the Hong Kong SAR government’s efforts in restoring order and ending violence and riots.
Ryan:
But can you understand, and I respect your ah… position on this when it comes to the protesters being violent, can you understand their position madame ambassador, when you look at the judicial system in mainland China and you look at some of the comments, not just from international observers, but in fact from China’s top job… judge who said in 2017 that the idea of judicial independence should be rejected, it’s a western ideal and should be rejected. Can you understand the concerns from those in Hong Kong at being extradited to face a judicial system that’s been described by your own judges as such?
Wu:
I… I think… I think the extradition comes from… you see a person in Hong Kong killed somebody in Taiwan, there is no extradition arrangement between mainland China, Hong Kong and Taiwan, so that man who committed a crime in Taiwan can’t be punished in accordance with law so then comes the proposal to have the extradition law. So, that… that’s the case and I don’t… I don’t think our judicial system is corrupt. We have our own laws and we always act in accordance with the law. China is a country ruled by law and of course no country’s judicial system is perfect so that’s why a lot of countries are improving.
Ryan:
All right. Madam ambassador, I want to move back to NZ and China’s relationship with NZ. You mentioned that there were some issues on which we disagreed. We will talk about Huawei and 5G in just a moment but I wanted to start with free speech and freedom of association in assembly in NZ which is something I know that Winston Peters and our Foreign Ministry has spoken to your people about. On the 30th anniversary of Tiananmen Square there was an event being held at AUT in Auckland. Your consulate in Auckland demanded that AUT block that event. Why?
Wu:
Well, I think that the question in Hong Kong concerns the sovereignty and the territorial integrity and we have a view on that. I… I think it’s right for any Chinese citizens or Chinese officials to speak in support of China’s sovereignty and territorial integrity.
Ryan:
But, if there is an event freely held, people are okay and allowed to go and turn up to an event in [a] university in NZ, to go and debate or protest issues – that is their right in this country – is it okay, do you think, for your consulate in Auckland to be trying to stop that from happening in Auckland?
Wu:
I think we have the right to express our views in support of our sovereignty and territorial integrity.
Ryan:
Have you tried to block other events apart from that one?
Wu:
As ambassador to NZ I am here to express Chinese government’s views on various issues.
Ryan:
And I respect that position entirely but what I’m trying to get to the bottom of is some of the issues that have been going on between the NZ government and the Chinese government, the Chinese embassy, over freedom of speech and China’s perceived interference in that, do you think that the ah… the so called “telling off” that officials gave to your people in Wellington back in August was justified or not?
Wu:
We never interfere into any other country’s internal affairs and likewise, we don’t want other countries to interfere in China’s internal affairs.
Ryan:
There was another protest and a student, Serena Lee, was pushed over or ended up on the ground during this process. Now, the consulate in Auckland again put out a statement and the statement seemed to condone the actions of the mainland Chinese who were ah… said to be responsible for that. Did you condone that, do you condone that?
Wu:
I think our consulate has a right to express their own views in safeguarding China’s sovereignty and territorial integrity.